Facing Organizational Uncertainty by Learning How to Learn
an interview with Brian Hinkens

Brian Hinken is the long-time organizational development facilitator for Gerber Memorial Health Services in Fremont, Michigan, and the author of the recently published book, The Learner’s Path: Practices for Recovering Knowers. In a recent conversation with Leverage Points editor Vicky Schubert, Brian talked about the personal and organizational benefits of moving from being a "knower" to being a "learner."

LP: You talk about being a "recovering knower." How did you come to identify yourself as a knower and what was the downside of this behavior?

BH: As many people do, I started "knowing" at a young age. I enjoyed the praise and recognition I received for my strong performance in various areas. But when I wasn't successful in something, I found ways to blame others or to devalue the activity. For example, when I went to college, I really wanted to play on the basketball team. I had done well in high school and went to college with the expectation of making the team. But I played soccer in the fall, and when I tried out for the basketball team, I didn't make it. For years, I explained that disappointment away with excuses: "Those dumb coaches had these tryouts when I had a soccer game. How did they expect me to make the team?"

This pattern continued through graduate school and into my first few jobs. But as the stakes grew higher, so did the internal pressure to always know the right answer and to be the best at whatever I tried. And this mindset also began to interfere with my ability to be a leader. So, after a particularly stressful on-the-job experience, I realized that I had to change—I had to become a learner.

LP: So, you became more of a learner when you accepted your limitations?

BH: Yes, but more than that, acknowledged them publicly. As a knower you get stuck. You get into a challenging situation in which you can’t possibly know everything and think, "What am I going to do? How am I going to get past this without anyone knowing that I'm scared and that I don't dare admit it?" So you live with your fear, preferring to hide what you can’t do.

In the last 10 years or so, it has become clear to me how powerful it is to publicly let go of old views you have of yourself. It allows you to focus on what you can do, to continually develop in those areas where you really have strengths.

LP: As we continually develop, aren’t we always seeking knowledge? And as we attain that knowledge, aren’t we becoming knowers all over again?

BH: There's a big difference between having knowledge and being a knower. Yes, we become learners to have knowledge. But I would define knowledge as an ability to produce your desired results. You could say it's okay to be a knower, but not okay to stay a knower. The world is constantly changing, so the knowledge that helped you yesterday may not actually get you the results you want today. Your knowledge becomes obsolete. And that's when the dynamic of the knower kicks in: when we hold onto knowledge that isn't working anymore. The key difference between having knowledge and being a knower is a willingness to be influenced. A learner is always willing to be influenced by new information or perspectives.

LP: Radically shifting your mental models to go public with your limitations cannot be easy, particularly when job performance measures are often based on our "knowing" something. How do you address this risk with people?

BH: There’s no doubt that being able to live as a learner is easier in a work environment that is supportive of admitting you don’t know. If you’re in a toxic setting where your success is based on what you know, being right, and showing how others are wrong, then it gets more challenging.

However, a few enlightened folks can almost always have an influence on the organization. They start in their own area of influence and then slowly spread the new ideas more broadly. But it takes time. We’ve been working at this at Gerber Memorial Health Services for probably 15 years, and that’s in a very supportive environment.

LP: When I think of a knower, I imagine someone who might blame other people in order to protect himself or herself. Becoming a learner seems to be about accountability.

BH: Absolutely. I think people get sick of the game of talking nice or beating down the other person and trying to win. They know deep inside themselves that that is not the way to go forward.

LP: What kind of response have you been getting as you’ve introduced these concepts at Gerber Memorial?

BH: I am continually blown away at how people in our organization are using this work. We offer a series of training classes called "Knower to Learner," designed to, among other things, help people think about how they may be contributing to their own problems. Ninety percent of the 75 people who have attended this training so far report having experienced some kind of significant shift in their life, whether at home or at work. About five months after we did the first class, we did a café conversation with all the graduates of the training. In story after story, people reported how they are integrating this framework into their thinking.

In one training, for example, we heard from a woman who complained, "This guy in my department is sexist; he hates women." So we asked, "How do you respond to his behavior?" We proceeded to create what we call "Doom Loops" to illustrate the pattern of escalation that was unfolding. We asked, "When he sees you responding that way, how does he respond?" And as we graphed it, this person began to see how she was contributing to the man's behavior that she hated so much. She had one of these "aha" moments: "Oh, my goodness, if I'm doing that to him, it's no wonder he acts this way toward me." When she went back to the department, she had a whole new way of relating to him.

We also find that this training impacts folks as much at home as it does at work. One woman was having all kinds of difficulty with her husband. Through the workshop, she was able to see her own contribution to the problem more clearly. At the end, she came up to me crying and gave me a big hug, and described what it had done for her. It can be powerful stuff on both a practical and an emotional level.

LP: What you call “the learner’s path” looks as though it could scale rather easily from personal to group application. Are there strategies that you recommend for implementing this work organizationally?

BH: Certainly the learner's path can be used with groups and teams. We’ve done that here and will continue to do so. Next week, in fact, we are hosting a café conversation for about 40 leaders explicitly organized around this approach to address some organizational challenges we've never faced before. We're opening a new medical wellness facility, and our leaders are experiencing some uncertainties. So, this café will allow us to explore the questions: "With the challenges and circumstances now in front of us, what will we focus on? Will we focus on our ability to respond? Or will we focus on explaining away the challenges with excuses?"

This framework has also reinforced much of the other work we've been doing as a learning organization. For four or five years, we've been doing monthly training on the tools of organizational learning, which has been fairly well received. But I've heard from a number of graduates of the tools training who, after going through the "Knower to Learner program," have said, "Now I'm finally getting it!" We've learned that you can do all the tools training you want, but until it sits in a bottom-line framework where I, the learner, am responsible for my own results, it won't be effective.

LP: When you say "bottom line" is it literally a bottom line? What are Gerber’s desired results? And are those outcomes changed by the embrace of this model?

BH: It's too soon to gauge its effect on tangible outcomes such as patient satisfaction scores and financial returns. We’ve only been using the "Knower to Learner" model intentionally for a year or so. But we can definitely feel its effects in terms of the directions we’re heading. We're bolder in choosing new directions, and we are willing to consider our own contribution to challenges like never before. I know that the depth of conversation has moved to another whole level.

We've established a group called the Triple Loop Council, so named because we are charged with engaging in triple-loop learning. It includes about 10 influential senior leaders, including the president and two senior vice presidents. Just yesterday, the group had a meeting on the idea of facing uncertainty, and in a draft document that listed some of the things that we were uncertain about, I saw the phrase, "Learners face uncertainty with confidence."

I began to imagine then, "What if this learner's framework were to become the dominant framework for the organization?" With 10 top leaders sitting down to look at how we actually contribute to some of the issues and problems that we're facing in the organization, maybe we’re almost there.

Suggestions for further investigation:

The Learner’s Path: Practices for Recovering Knowers

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