An Edge-Dwelling by Nature: An Interview with Roger Saillant (from Leverage Points Issue 73)

Roger Saillant is president and CEO of Plug Power, an innovative fuel cell manufacturer that is developing new ways to harness, distribute and use energy. In the following interview with Leverage Points editor Vicky Schubert, he reflects on the importance of honesty and trust when leading in a climate of high risk.

LP: You made headlines last week when it was reported that Plug Power is slated to receive a sizeable investment from a Russian firm. You must be gratified by that vote of confidence.

RS: Gratified and somewhat amazed. No one would have predicted a year ago that this would happen. And we didn’t go out seeking this investment. But it’s funny how the world works. Lots of pieces came together all of a sudden and somehow this little company has gone from a wisp of survival to actually being selected as the best in the world in its niche. More than anything, we feel affirmed that our preoccupation with trying to be a good company and trying to build a good culture while delivering a new technology has resulted in positive financial recognition.

LP: These investors clearly believe in the future of hydrogen. But major infrastructural changes will have to occur before the hydrogen economy becomes a reality. In terms of mobility, bio-fuel-ready vehicles and electric hybrids are hitting the road even as we speak. Where would you say we stand relative to adoption of hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles?

RS: It will probably be twenty years before hydrogen fuel cell vehicles become significant. But we are moving in the right direction and hybrid-electric vehicles (like the one I drive) are a necessary step in the move away from pure internal combustion engine systems.

I agree with Amory Lovins, the CEO of the Rocky Mountain Institute, who sees the transition occurring in three phases. The first move will be toward efficiency, the second move will be toward lighter weight vehicles, and the third move will be toward fuel cell vehicles. It won’t happen overnight. A complete turnover in our fleet could take 30 to 50 years.

I think legislative and regulatory pressures will help move things along. Mandated improvement in corporate average fuel economy will drive people first to hybrid-electric, and then to lighter cars. And if California – followed by other states – passes legislation encouraging zero-level-emission vehicles, or “ZLEV’S,” that will force a growing number of people to go to fuel cell vehicles even more quickly. My bet is that transportation will go through these phases reluctantly at first, and then accelerate.

LP: You’ve referred to our energy future as a mosaic. Can you tell us what you mean by that?

RS: Well, very clearly we have a mosaic today. Every form of energy that we have originates with the sun, even down to nuclear, which comes from old suns, stars. When you burn fossil fuels, or dung from animals, wood, coal, peat, oil — you’re just burning old sunlight. Bio-fuels come from green materials that were nurtured by sunlight. And coal obviously, comes from old plants. Wind farms work because the sun has heated up air differentially and it’s circulating in order to reach equilibrium. Waves and tides are caused by winds, by the moon and the sun. Geo-thermal energy derives from the heat inside the earth’s core, which comes from radioactive materials slowly decaying, and those radioactive materials came from old stars or suns. So, it’s fascinating; you can’t get away from it.

And I think what we’ll see will just be a shift in the mix. We’ll see more power going through solar arrays. We’ll see more wind farms, more geothermal, more bio-mass, perhaps more natural gas, which has a much shorter loop than say, coal and oil. But we’ll always have this mosaic that’s derived from sunlight at one time or another.

LP: Of course, there’s a good deal of uncertainty about exactly how that mix will shift, which means that hydrogen is still a fairly high risk investment. Investors can measure that risk in dollars. But, as a leader in this field, you have more than just money at stake. How would you describe the personal risk that you’re taking by committing your heart and soul to this leading edge?

RS: Many of our investors share this commitment over the voices of opposition of their colleagues and competitors; they run the risk of losing their jobs and their status in addition to their returns. So, I would say our investors also have more at stake than just their dollars. For some it’s a deeply conscientious choice.

A few years ago, we had an unusually successful “road show” during which we visited 27 investment companies and about 24 of them decided they were going to invest in our company. And I remember one particular investor who chose not to invest. A day or two after we made the announcement about the funds we had raised, we noticed our stock started to go up. It turned out that this investor had had a change of mind and became our single largest investor independent of our strategic partners, DTE and GE at the time. When I went back and asked them why they did it, they said it was an act of conscience. On reflection, they felt there was no way they could not do it.

And so, as a leader in this space, one thing that’s at stake for me is my trustworthiness, my credibility. I believe very strongly in this work, and I like to win; I like to be the best. But you know, probably more than any of those things, I just love to be trusted. And that means that I want to be transparent. I want people to know what they’re getting into. I believe that trust opens up lots of possibilities and magic happens.

I have tried to build a trustful response to my investors. I’ve tried to be very honest about the risks; I’ve tried to be as honest as I can about the opportunity. And I’ve tried to identify investors who really understand how mindful I am of the trust they’re putting in me. They know that I take my obligation to others very seriously.

They’re placing a bet. They’re saying, “In this whole area of renewables, this whole area of fuel cells and this future mosaic that is just rife with opportunities, who are we going to bet on? Who is most likely to be the best steward of this money?” They’re betting on a management team that is attached to a vision, is competent and credible. And that’s a leap of faith that requires trust above all.

LP: Building trust through transparency requires a certain amount of humility.

RS: The nature of the work itself requires humility. These are huge problems and timeframes. I have a real sense of how many people’s shoulders I’m standing on in order to be where I am today. Look at all the structures of science and learning and knowledge that we all benefit from when we set out to do the next thing – whatever that happens to be. If you see it that way, I don’t know how you can’t be filled with a lot of humility. I often feel fragile. I feel like I wish I were a lot smarter, a lot more capable. And I know that I’m not. And I know that I’m not equal to this task by myself.

LP: That brings us to the quality of the team at Plug Power and the culture that holds them together. I suspect that a key ingredient in that culture is their willingness – even desire – to share the risk. Is there something in their individual personalities that makes them ‘edge-dwellers’, or does the collective energy ignite that desire in all different kinds of people?

RS: This is an interesting group of people. They are edge-dwellers, I think, by nature. If you were looking for security, up until a few days ago you would not work for Plug Power. This is not a venture; this is a twisty, turny adventure. I think we all share an ignition point around simple, honest passion. And I think that the idea of being in service in our work is really a fuel for us. It’s a source of inspiration; it’s a source of strength that seems to come by just working in this territory.

LP: In service to each other? In service to humankind? In service to the emerging technologies?

RS: I would venture to say it’s all of those but it’s more than that. First of all, you really care about the guy in the foxhole with you. So, it’s in service to each other; you don’t want to let each other down. But there is a sense of people here knowing that they’re working on something that’s really right.

The folks who work here are much younger than I in most cases. Their children are 6, 8, 10, 12 years old. And they talk about how good they feel when their kids come home and say, “Hey, Dad, I heard about renewable energy today. I heard about sustainability. I heard about renewables.” And all of a sudden the parent can say, “Yeah, now you understand what I’m doing.” And they feel like they’re in a vocation and an avocation at the same time. It’s very consistent. They’re proud of it.

LP: Not everybody gets a chance to be doing work that feels that meaningful. Are there things that Plug Power is learning about building trust and commitment that might translate into other kinds of work?

RS: Well, I think that there are lots of devices that you can use like learning organization principles and communication skills and personal mastery. But more than anything else is the realization that you spend a lot of your life in your job. And you can make that into something or not. Once you make the choice to make it something greater than a job – your life’s work – it becomes the way you try to live inside your business as well as inside your family. It becomes self-consistent. Once you figure out how to be seamlessly integrated, it is very powerful.

I think almost any company can get to this as long as the transactions within each person are honest and the transactions of those around them are self-consistent and honest. The further away you get from manipulation, the better off you feel about yourself and about what you’re doing.

Suggested further reading:
Making Patient Capital Pay Off, by Art Kleiner